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Post by buckdec on Apr 28, 2010 0:44:44 GMT -5
so iv sorta started on my bug for the last while money is slowing me down lately i find i end up spending more on tools then the actual car but im starting to run out of tools to buy so that good i guess. but i was wondering when you use the s10 frame is the stock back axel strong enough to take the torque from a 350 sb. and what do you guys do about the drive shaft is there one out of a certain car that works or do you need a custom one? and if you use a manual tranny is the shifter usualy come up in an anoying location or no? and any idea were id go to find out about street legal laws for my province cause iv gone to the dmv the cop shop and a few mechanics and all of them have no clue but i have a feeling once i get it on the road im going to get pulled over for something stupid like my friends tint was to dark on his windows...
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Post by V8 Super Beetle on Apr 28, 2010 8:56:32 GMT -5
Hi Buckdec. I feel you. Tools are expensive and these cars require more tools to build than just dropping a V8 in something that'll accept it as is. My build has a S10 frame and the stock 7.625 axle which is a little stronger than the 7.5. The 7.625 axle cam in 94 and later S10s, second gens, I believe. I have a 383 in mine with about 410-425 hp and 445-465 ft lb of torque and have no problems with it holding up lighting up 28" tires just about every time I even get it up to 2K RPM. You probably should be more worried about keeping up with the expense tires. As long as you don't put slicks on the rear and don't beat on it ALL the time, you should be OK. An easy upgrade and direct bolt in for S10 is the S10 8.5 (comes in 4.10 gears), I forget which trucks they come in, and the Ford Explorer 8.8" (comes in 3.55, 3.73, and 4.10 gears). It only takes a little research to find out which truck the 8.5 came in and how to find out what year and gear for the Explorer. The ford explorer read is about 3" wider and requires wheels with a great offset and a 5 x 4.5" bolt pattern. Something to think about. You WILL have to shorten the driveshaft, unless you lengthen your car, and you'll probably need a conversion u-joint. I know I did. It was about $200 to have the driveshaft shortened, balanced, new ends (forget what they're called) new u-joints installed, and a used yoke. You can probably have one built for about $250. I pretty much supplied just the pipe after it was all said an done. But the driveshaft was free (traded for an old part laying around). The shifter should fall in a pretty comfortable spot. I would suggest going with an automatic that way you can place the shifter where ever you please. You'll also be pretty limited on foot room. It'll just be that much tighter having to have the clutch pedal. I'm not sure where you're from, so I couldn't tell you. Show the cop your 350 under the hood and you might get out of the ticket. ;D "I'll slow it down, officer." I hope this helps.
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Post by Mock1racer on Apr 28, 2010 9:00:36 GMT -5
The main thing you need to consider is how you plan on driving the car. If you plan on just cruising or puttin around in it the stock rear end will hold up ok, dont expect it to hold up if you have 500 HP and do a trans drop from 5000 RPM. As far as the driveshaft goes, you may have to have one made by a machine shop that is balanced. Not sure about the manual trans, but the auto stick can be setup with a cable and then it doesnt matter where the shifter is. As far as it being legal for the province, what ever that is, I'm sure there is an inspection depot that can look at your ride and tell you what you need to change/fix/add. Most of it is common sense stuff.
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Post by hellraiser on Apr 28, 2010 15:43:15 GMT -5
ya most everything should hold up. if you have to have a manual trans go with a 3 speed from like an old chevy truck or car you know "3 on the tree" at least that way you will have a linkage so you can mount it wherever. my local DMV told me as long as it looks like a bug then to just register it as a bug, its gotta have the VIN# and as long as its not like a kit car or something lol.
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Post by buckdec on May 2, 2010 1:46:04 GMT -5
ok so some new ideas im probably going to go with the automatic shifter seeing in 6' 4" and anything but the skinniest guy around so extra space probably wont exist. but i was thinking im pulling the engine and tranny out of a 1980 suburban so should i keep the back axle and drive shaft get them both shortened and regeared. and random thing also would i be better off to make my own tube frame and theres a guy in my town that is parting out a 1998 porche 996 should i try and get the front suspension and all that goodness and use it in my bug if the price is right? any one have any idea how much the steel would general cost for a tube frame? and ill take the easy rout and get my engineer friend to design it and get a case of beer and get a ticketed welder to do it up for me cause im not the best at welding and that's the last weld i would want to fail. o and since you all seem to find pics of project bugs better then porn heres what i have so far.. what it started out as... and now were it is as of a week ago.
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Post by buckdec on May 2, 2010 2:58:06 GMT -5
o just had another thought has anyone ever considered the set up of an old porsche 928 with the engine in the front then torque tube and transaxle in the back. cause then you wouldn't have to worry so much about room up front and there normaly is a transaxle in the back wouldn't that lead to more foot room and less altering? or the whole torque tube would cost a fortune to get shortened if thats even possible no clue how the length of it all would work but itd be an interesting idea to toss around.
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Post by Mock1racer on May 3, 2010 6:05:50 GMT -5
You need to ask yourself a couple more questions before messin with the porche stuff, 1.) How hard will it be to find replacement parts? 2.) How long will the porche equipment last if thrashed on? 3.) It will NEVER sound like a 350 4.) Is nt the front end of the porche setup like a bug? I dont know jack about a porche. If so, you wont be able to get the engine over the tie rods and that will eat up all of your room.
And yes, I would much rather look at pics of project builds than porn.
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Post by V8 Super Beetle on May 3, 2010 9:21:44 GMT -5
I wouldn't know about the porsche stuff either. Can it handle the added weight of a V8 or an engine upfront? I know some models have the engine upfront. You also have to consider the width of the chassis you plan to use. The S10 chassis is perfect upfront but needs at least 3" wider fenders in back. You'll have to shorten the driveshaft either way.
The cost to build a tube chassis will depend on how much tubing you'll need, the design, and the cost of 2x3 or 2x4 in your area. It could be as cheap as $150 or as expensive as $600. Lots of variables.
I would suggest using the S10 frame and back-halfing it to get the 94.5" wheelbase you need. The best of both worlds. A front suspension that's easy and cheap to maintain and a good rear suspension that'll hook. The S10 frame is really cheap to rebuild. It's $10 for a complete new brake caliper from AutoZone. Something to think about. Lots of aftermarket parts for the S10 too. A arms, dropped spindles, drop coils springs, rack and pinion steering, etc.
If you have the money to build a tube chassis, I would suggest going that route. If on a budget, go S10.
Looks like you have a good bug to start with.
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Post by Mock1racer on May 3, 2010 9:26:09 GMT -5
I sure wish I had gone the S-10 route. maybe next time.
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Post by V8 Super Beetle on May 3, 2010 9:43:47 GMT -5
You can make those S10 chassis mighty nice. Or use them as is, but just shorten the wheelbase. This is what I was talking about. Back-halfed, upgraded a-arms, rack and pinion steering, etc. Very nice. If you go the S10 route, I would suggest getting a short wheelbase frame. Then all you have to do to get the 94.5" bug wheelbase is grid the rivets off of the rear leaf mounts, move them forward 13 or so inches, drill holes and bolt them back up with grade 8 bolts. You'll need shorter leaf springs cause the S10 leafs are too long.
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Post by buckdec on May 3, 2010 22:04:01 GMT -5
ok so i think iv figured it all out i think im going to go with a mustang 2 front suspension tube frame and the back axle out of a ford explorer that way i get discs all the way around and a strong back axle. and i have access to allot of machine tools that most people can only dream of such as 50 cnc machines... pays to know people i guess lol. and i can order steel through a company i use to work through so that should help keep some of the price down some what.
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Post by Mock1racer on May 4, 2010 7:40:40 GMT -5
You can make those S10 chassis mighty nice. Or use them as is, but just shorten the wheelbase. This is what I was talking about. Back-halfed, upgraded a-arms, rack and pinion steering, etc. Very nice. If you go the S10 route, I would suggest getting a short wheelbase frame. Then all you have to do to get the 94.5" bug wheelbase is grid the rivets off of the rear leaf mounts, move them forward 13 or so inches, drill holes and bolt them back up with grade 8 bolts. You'll need shorter leaf springs cause the S10 leafs are too long. Matt, who's build is this?
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Post by notchman on May 4, 2010 7:42:08 GMT -5
If you still need to buy your Mustang II front end and are thinking aftermarket...R-Jays had the best price anywhere for a Heidts IFS. You can get the narrowed wheel track with GM calipers and rotors, etc, etc, all al a carte. www.rjays.com/Heidts/hei-superide2-pkg-01.htm
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Post by V8 Super Beetle on May 4, 2010 10:07:55 GMT -5
That's awesome news. That's the best way to go.
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Post by V8 Super Beetle on May 4, 2010 10:09:22 GMT -5
You can make those S10 chassis mighty nice. Or use them as is, but just shorten the wheelbase. This is what I was talking about. Back-halfed, upgraded a-arms, rack and pinion steering, etc. Very nice. If you go the S10 route, I would suggest getting a short wheelbase frame. Then all you have to do to get the 94.5" bug wheelbase is grid the rivets off of the rear leaf mounts, move them forward 13 or so inches, drill holes and bolt them back up with grade 8 bolts. You'll need shorter leaf springs cause the S10 leafs are too long. Matt, who's build is this? Not sure. It was on the HAMB. www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=274702&showall=1
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