A Little Help with Stance and Tire Size on my V8 B

[zbhover]

Hello Everyone as some of you guys know I have been building a V8 convertible 69 bug on an s10 chassis. I've recently finished rebuilding the front end of the chassis and think my next step needs to be figuring out the stance that I want to have so I can get the engine level, make up a trans. cross member, etc......

Here is the car as it sits right now. When rebuilding the chassis I put on 2" drop spindles, and the rear got dropped a little too with with shorter springs.



Right now both the chassis and body are pretty much level. The body needs to move forward a bit, but right now its hitting in the old rusted in s10 body mounts.... If I want the car to sit level I think I'll need to drop the body a bit more to close up the rear wheel well gap. I don't want to drop the body on the frame to much because I'm 6'3" and I don't want to have my head stick out above the windshield.... LOL

Here is a drawing showing what I think its going to look like when its done If I leave it sitting level.



Now it doesn't look bad, but I just think it needs a bit of a rake to it to make it look real nice. I could close up the front wheel well gap a bit and open the rear gap up a bit and get a little rake on the body, but I'm not sure that would be enough, and with the same size tires on front and back I'm thinking it also might look a bit off??

So I messed with the drawing a bit and with larger tires on the rear end and a little bit of a rake to it I think it looks much nicer, maybe a little more aggressive?



So now If I'm going to be messing with tire size its going to make a difference in the hight of my trans cross member to get the engine level. I don't have the money to buy new wheels and tires right now but I need to figure out what size tires I'm going to want to use so I can move on....

Right now it has p21565r15 tires (about 25.5" tall) on front and back(from the s10), I have room to go wider on the back end, plus I'll be going taller, and on the front I figured I'd go narrower and maybe a tad shorter???

Is there a list of common tire sizes out there so I can pick something common and mock it up from that???

Lets start with the rear tire size, what width, and hight would be best, I'm planning on the car being a cruiser, no racing. Right now its just a stock 350 so not a whole lot of power yet, but I'd like to build an engine for it later, but probably only around 350hp.

What would be a good size tire for a cruiser with 350hp, 200r4 trans, and 3.42 rear end (rear end may change later when I upgrade?) 2500-2800lbs car, and I'll probably make some caltracs and put on the rear end.

How about front tires can I go shorter, and how narrow???

Any disadvantages to going with different size tires in front and back? Well besides shorter life because I can't rotate them.

Any reasons I should stick with the same size tires front and back???


Thanks for all the help guys!!!

[Mock1racer]

I'm running 145 R 15 in the front, and 275 60 R 15 in the back. I would stick with what you have in the front and measure up the rears and go a bit wider there. Even with a 2800 lb car you will get some wheel spin, with skinny tires. Maybe look at a 225 65 R 15 , that will give you an 8.85 inch wide tire, and that will give some more height as well.
And the rake looks good, unless your front tires are rubbing the fenders when you steer.

[V8 Super Beetle]

It's kinda hard to tell exactly what you have at the moment without the front fenders being in place. I would mock that up so you can get a better idea.

Looks like you're running into the issue I had with my S10 conversion. S10 truck frames sit up pretty high, well, for my tastes. One of the reasons I did a 6" body drop, but you're right. It will take away head space cause you can't really lower the floor pans with the bulky S10 frame.

There's a couple things you could do. Either drop the body or get more drop components. Get some lowering blocks for the back. You can get them up to a 4" drop. I wouldn't recommend going more than 2" with a V8. I also would recommend the solid aluminum drop blocks from JTR. Don't get the whimpy hollow blocks. They can break if you got on it good.

They also make more components to drop the front other than spindles. They have dropped coil springs and A arms. Depends on how low you want to go. You can get about a 6-7" total drop with combined spindles, springs and a-arms. You'll have to get shorter / dropped shocks if you go the coil spring route.

Obviously going with a shorter tire will help some too, but you also can reduce your final drive ratio if you go with too short a tire in back. i would keep the total tire height somewhere around 28".

As far as width, it depends on what you're looking for. If you want any kind of handling I wouldn't go any narrower than 195. If you want a stock beetle look, get some 145 or 165. Those tires are cheap. I got a pair for $100 mounted at discount. I would at least keep a 235 in the back so you're not constantly breaking the tires loose. I would stick with about a 65-75 tire height if you're using 15" wheels.

Again, it's all just preference.

[Mock1racer]

Something else I thought of too, the engine doesnt sit "level". There should be at least a 5 degree rake on the engine when the frame sits level. I may be wrong because of the S-10 frame but it shouldnt sit level. The intake has a slant on the top of it so when the vehicle is at ride hieght the CARB is level, not the whole engine. Also, with the engine having a rake on it the oil will flow through the passages better.

[V8 Super Beetle]

Good call. I thought of that, but forgot to mention it. I forget the specifics, but it's something like 2-3º angle on the tranny / engine and an opposite 2-3º for the differential to compensate for suspension travel and to cancel out drivetrain harmonics, or something along those lines. How crutial it is, I don't know.

[Mock1racer]

Is it really only 2-3? i did mine at 5 and my rear at 5 too. Didnt have any problems at 100+ mph!

[V8 Super Beetle]

I recall it being about 3º... don't quote me though. I believe the important thing is their relation to one another. If your tranny is at 5 and rear at 5 then it'll be good.

[Mock1racer]

Okay, back on topic...
Here is some info on tires for ya...

carmensbugs.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=gendisc&action=display&thread=293

there is so much info on that site for tires that will keep you busy for a while. ;D

[zbhover]

Thanks for the help guys!!!

Matt:

Right now I have about a 4” body drop, maybe about only 3” in the front but I’m hitting the old s10 cab mounts right now. I’m planning on dropping that other 1” in the front of the body, maybe a tad more.

Dropping the rear end won’t really help me out much unless I also drop the front end some more….. But if I do need to drop the rear end I work in an aluminum foundry and I could slice up an 356A ingot rough cut it, heat treat it to t6 and machine myself an angled drop block to not only lowered the rear end but also correct the angle of the rear end….

I don’t really want to drop the front suspension much more… Mostly because I already rebuilt everything…. LOL But when I bought new springs I decided to jump up to the 4.6l springs from the 2.8l that the truck had in it thinking the 2.8l springs might be too soft with the extra weight of the 350. Now I’m thinking that these 4.6 springs might be a bit too tall/stiff, and maybe it has some to do with the tubular UCA’s too, but now I have noticeable negative camber even with all the alignment shims removed…. Before with the stock springs that were in there I didn’t have noticeable negative camber even with nothing on the chassis, so I don’t think the extra weight of the front end of the car will compress them enough to get rid of it. I’m thinking about pulling the springs out and cutting up just a bit to try to get rid of the –camber and lower the front end a bit???

Here is a pic where you can kinda see the –camber




Yeah I’ve also herd 3 degrees and an opposite 3 at the rear to match, that’s what I meant when I said “level” LOL I’ve also herd to level the engine at the intake at the carb mounting surface because this is usually 3 or 4 degrees off from the crank centerline. Right now I’m much further off that that because I have no trans mount and the trans is just sitting on a pipe going across the frame rails…. LOL


Right now I’m thinking I’ll probably stick with about the same height tires on the front, that way I can mock it up with the 26” tall tires I have now. When I get new tires I’ll probably go a hair narrower and get 205 65 r15 tires and if I think I need a bit smaller I’ll drop to some 60’s.

For the rear end I think I’ll bump up to some 29” tall tires from the 26”er’s I have now. That will lift the rear end up 1.5” so I rolled the back tires up on some 2x4’s and it looks pretty nice. They’ll also fill up the fender gap nicely too, I might drop the front of the body another inch to get a tad more rake. So I’ll be going to some 255 70 r15’s in the back, which means they’ll also be 1.5” wider, but I have plenty of room for that. I’ll be calling around to a couple tires shops to see if they have some used tires this size they’ll sell me cheap so I can mock it up.

I’m also choosing tires sizes carefully incase I want to go with bigger wheels at some time. I might be able to get a good deal on some billet specialties wheels in the future but it’s looking like they’d have to be 17’s or 17’s up front and 18’s in the back. So I choose widths and dia’s that I’d be able to easily get in 17” and 18”.

Oh and mock… I was going in between a tire calculator and tirerack.com figure sizes and availability out……..

Thanks again for the help guys.

[chenshui]

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